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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 11, 2014 13:39:34 GMT
I am distraught and don't know what to do... Ava the rottie we rehomed from you has today completely out of character bitten the post man on the leg and drawn blood.. She was off her lead at my mothers home and the postie asked if she was ok and I said yes, as he went past her he raised his leg to step over the water bowl and she bit him, when I shouted to her she stopped immediately but she had already broken the skin on his leg and he was bleeding. The wound was not deep more surface scuffs. I told the postman my address and that I am aware he has to report this which he didn't say if he would or not. I have been looking on the internet for info about what might happen next. Has anyone ever had this happen? Will we have to have her PTS? Should I inform the police or Royal Mail myself? I am heartbroken and I know it was my fault as she was off the lead but she has never shown any signs of biting before and I wonder if she was scared when he lifted his leg as we have noticed she is nervous around feet and thought maybe she has been kicked in the past. I feel so sick and worried.
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Post by Biscuits_mam on Jul 11, 2014 15:55:21 GMT
She would be territorial and may of seen him raising his leg as a threat, anything could of happened to her in the passed as she is a rescue. There is new legislation out about attacks at the property. I am Susie will know more about it. With regards to reporting the incident did you take the post mans name and contact details? With regards to if he reports Incident The police will send a dog handler out to asses Ava's temperament. As I said it may be a case she thought he was going to hurt her. If you read up on the new legislation about attacks in the home it should help. I'm not in work so don't have it to hand unfortunately. blogs.rspca.org.uk/insights/2014/05/14/how-the-changes-to-the-dangerous-dogs-act-affect-you-and-your-dog/#.U8AIxom9LCQ
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Post by Biscuits_mam on Jul 11, 2014 15:55:40 GMT
Sure*
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 11, 2014 17:38:34 GMT
Thank you very much. He didn't give me his details, I did give him mine though, he was ok about it but you never know what can come of these sorts of things.
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Post by Baglady on Jul 11, 2014 20:29:40 GMT
Oh Venessa, you have my heartfelt sympathy, this is a scenario we all dread I'm not a behaviourist, I can't offer any hypothesis about what Ava did, or why. She may have been resource guarding, she may have been hot and bothered, something may have happened just before she bit (which you may or may not have noticed). All I do know is that when someone says 'for no reason at all' that just means we don't know what the reason is. There is always a reason, sometimes it is so subtle, but as you say it was totally out of character, so something must have triggered it. You may never find out what that was, but if I were in your position, there are a few things I would do immediately. First and foremost, you need to make absolutely sure that this can never happen again. If anyone does escalate it, it can only help if everyone understands that you accept that even though it was 'the first time' you have put measures in place to ensure it is also 'the last time'. When Ava is at home, perhaps it would be a good idea to ensure that she is in a safe place before you allow visitors into your home, and make sure that the same thing happens when she is at your mum's. Don't put her in a position where she could make the same mistake again. Put this plan in writing, make sure everyone who has care of Ava understands it. Implement it immediately, and if you do get a dreaded call in the next few days at least it will show that you are taking it seriously and doing everything you can to make sure it doesn't happen again. It is also worth consulting with a properly qualified trainer behaviourist, just to try to get to the bottom of what happened, and also to demonstrate (if it does get reported) that you are taking remedial actions. Caroline Cowan of Cardiff Canine Citizens is the best I know for miles. She was also a dog warden for many years, and may be able to advise you on how you should best navigate this incident from a legal point of view. More than that I honestly don't know what you should do. If it were me, I wouldn't be putting my head above the parapet, but I would be prepared in the event that the postie reports it. So very very sorry this has happened, I can only imagine how devastated you must be.
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 11, 2014 21:32:54 GMT
Thanks. It is the first time in the year and half of owning her that she has ever shown aggression and I am devastated. Believe me if we get to keep her this will never happen again, she will never be put in the position where this could happen again, my lesson has been well learned here. In future she will no longer be off her lead if someone approaches my mothers where we sit out the front we can see anyone coming up the path, she will also never be between me and anyone approaching, her place will always be behind me from now on. I am totally shocked and can notake sense of what happened today, I guess I will never know. I have already done what you suggested and put measures in place. I am also thinking that should the matter be reported and the police are to visit might it be worth getting character statements from the groomers etc where she goes as to how she usually is around people. I hope with all my heart that we can overcome today and it never ever happens again. As I say I have learnt my lesson from this and I am aware of where I let her down and that this is my doing, I just hope we get the chance to correct this incident.
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 11, 2014 21:42:39 GMT
I am expecting that it will be reported and I fully understand , as I told him at the time, that he has a duty to do so. Which is why I have him my details.
I am so concerned because of her breed that if we have a visit to assess her she will automatically be deemed as a dangerous dog.
She really isn't, and until now I would never have thought it possible of her.
I have been foolish and I wholly regret that I didn't do the right thing today and stop the postie from approaching. I guess I was being complacent because a different postie approached last week and she was absolutely fine, the only difference being this one lifted his leg to step over something and this occurred. I always had my doubts that she has been mistreated in her past, I am now more than ever convinced she has, this makes me feel that I have let her down even more.
As this postie is our regular one I hope to see him next week and apologise again and make sure that he is ok, I am concerned for him too and the injury he has sustained whilst innocently doing his job. Due to my job I did advise him on tetanus and to attend A&E should he experience pain, swelling, infection etc.
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Post by Baglady on Jul 11, 2014 21:45:18 GMT
Don't beat yourself up Venessa, it can happen to anyone, to the most diligent owner. It was totally unexpected, out of character, and you had absolutely no reason whatsoever to think this could happen. I'll be absolutely honest, I probably wouldn't report it - if it were one of my dogs. I would just be prepared in the event that someone else does. I don't think the outcome will be any different if it does get escalated and I would hesitate to 'invite trouble around the corner'. But I'm not saying that's the 'right' thing to do, it's just what my instincts tell me. I can't imagine how you must be feeling, well, maybe I can I do think it might help if you are able to get hold of Caroline. Perhaps ask her if she thinks you should maybe talk to your local dog warden to ask his advice? Do you live in Cardiff?
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 11, 2014 21:50:47 GMT
I don't live in Cardiff.
Thank you again, It was something that should never of happened but unfortunately did and I will have to deal with whatever comes of it.
As I say though, I will do my best to insure this can not happen again, and keep my fingers crossed that I get to keep Ava and work with her and her demons.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 9:30:31 GMT
Try to cross one bridge at a time. I know this is easier said than done, but as yet you don't know what the postman will do. He may not do anything, but if he does decide to report it then deal with it one step at a time. I know you are very worried and upset for Ava, but don't do anything rash. There are very many ways this could be dealt with "and" have a satisfactory outcome for you and the postman and Ava. As I understand it, under Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871 only a magistrate can insist a dog is PTS and even then it states "in extreme circumstances". Even though unpleasant, this doesn't appear to be an extreme case. I do think that if necessary, what you said previously about getting references could prove very useful, but only do this if it is required. Hopefully this may come to nothing. Best Wishes.
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Post by debs91067 on Jul 12, 2014 11:18:35 GMT
Hi Vanessa, I want to try and put your mind at rest if I can, my hubby's a postie in Penarth area and was bitten approx. a month or so ago, while he was walking down the street by a dog who was on the lead at the time but the owner had no control over. My hubby had a mouthful of abuse off the owner with no apology and because of this he reported it to his manager as the dog did draw blood and it was quite a nasty bite. However at no time did my hubby blame the dog and definitely didn't want the dog pts and he told the dog warden and the police exactly that as we are both dog lovers ourselves. All he wanted was the owner to recognise that he may need muzzling or kept on a shorter leash while out in public for the safety of future posties and public in general. This same dog has bitten twice before and since and as far as I know the owner Just received a warning and told to muzzle while out in public and to no longer use an extendable lead. The dog is still with the same owner, it's an Alsation, and although the police and dog warden were involved the dog is safe and has not had any threat of being put to sleep. I wouldn't report it, just leave it and maybe try and speak to your postman next time to see if everything's okay, Hopefully as it wasn't too bad it will blow over. Just make sure he's contained when postie visits in future, none of us can ever truly predict the behaviour of our dogs so air on the side of caution Just incase.
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 12, 2014 15:14:39 GMT
Thank you debs that really does help me feel a bit calmer. and thank you all for your comments and for not being judgementall of myself or Ava, I greatly appreciate it.
I would like to believe she is not an out of control dog as once told she stopped immediately and she is never off her lead in public places and nor do I use a long leash on her.
I have always avoided putting her in difficult positions where other dogs are concerned as I am aware she is tetchy around them, now I have learnt to avoid situations of leg rising and having her between me and others too, so hopefully this situation will never happen again. I will not treat her differently as she would pick up on it and therefore act differently. I will just be watching her more closely and be less complacent in future. X
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Post by garrick on Jul 13, 2014 13:05:41 GMT
Hi Venessa
What a few days of turmoil you've been through - I'm so sorry for that.
I really think you've been given some excellent advice in the previous posts. It's difficult to know the right thing to do in the immediate aftermath of these situations because emotions run a bit high. However, having had Ava as part of your family for more than a year now, YOU are the best judge of her character and I think you're right in your assessment that she is certainly not a dangerous dog.
As you've mentioned, you have no idea what has happened in her past - and she may have seen the postman's actions as a threat to you. My lurcher, who's been with me nearly two years now, was a cruelty case which went to prosecution. He is a very anxious dog - which has sometimes manifested itself in aggression - but I have learned to read his body language and if he feels under threat, I pop him back on the lead immediately. That way he knows that I have control of the situation.
I agree with the others - I really wouldn't report this to the authorities as you may flag up a problem where there is no need. The postman might just chalk it up to experience and be more cautious around the house environs in future. He'll have realised that you're a responsible owner, who's mortified about this, by your actions immediately after the event. Perhaps, if you see him again, you could give him a bottle of wine or something with Ava's apologies. It sounds trite but when everyone's cooled down, a lightness of touch can sometimes help. Should he take it any further, you've already put measures in place to make sure it doesn't happen again and this will definitely go in your favour.
I think you're absolutely right not to allow your feelings towards Ava to change. I was lucky enough to walk her on a number of occasions before you adopted her - and I didn't see a nasty side to her on any of those occasions. She was a joy to be with and I felt completely safe with her. She obviously loves you and may, as I said, have felt you were under threat for some reason. Any number of factors, as you mentioned yourself, may have played a part. She's just shown you one of her parameters - and you now know her better as a result of it.
Don't beat yourself up over this......you have a lovely dog.
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Post by venessapassaro on Jul 15, 2014 12:42:59 GMT
Thank you Garrick.
Well I have seen the postman and thankfully he is fine about it, he stated it was a nothing bite just a scratch and didn't report it has he can tell Ava is not a nasty out of control dog and that she must of been spooked for some reason. He said had it been worse or if it happened again it would be a different matter.
I said many thank you's and apogised profusely and assured him I will be doing everything I can to ensure it doesn't happen again and all is well with me the postman and Ava.
Thank you everyone for your words of wisdom in the aftermath and your help in keeping me calm.
Onwards and upwards i go with my girl and working on those issues of hers. X
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 14:45:42 GMT
That is great news Vanessa. I am so glad. You can now relax and enjoy your "Ava" time. It was brave of you to post this up and hopefully we have all learned a little something from your experience.
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